Why we say you should practice zazen without a gaining idea, is that gaining idea is based on a selfish idea. --------------------------- Excerpt from Shunryu Suzuki lecture - 69-04-08-bn - as found on shunryusuzuki.com. Edited by DC - Going through Suzuki lectures and posting anything that can stand on its own. Not looking for zingers or "the best of." I find that following these excerpts daily provides another way to experience Suzuki's teaching.